A minor milestone

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A minor milestone

Nathaniel Smith
Looking at https://pypistats.org/packages/numpy , it appears that
August 24 was the last day when numpy had more Python 2 downloads than
Python 3 downloads (maybe ever?).

-n

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Re: A minor milestone

Hans Dembinski

> On 7. Sep 2018, at 06:33, Nathaniel Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Looking at https://pypistats.org/packages/numpy , it appears that
> August 24 was the last day when numpy had more Python 2 downloads than
> Python 3 downloads (maybe ever?).

Good news, it is about time.

Just out of curiosity, what happened after Jul 27, when the downloads doubled?


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Re: A minor milestone

Nathaniel Smith
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 1:19 AM, Hans Dembinski <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> On 7. Sep 2018, at 06:33, Nathaniel Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Looking at https://pypistats.org/packages/numpy , it appears that
>> August 24 was the last day when numpy had more Python 2 downloads than
>> Python 3 downloads (maybe ever?).
>
> Good news, it is about time.
>
> Just out of curiosity, what happened after Jul 27, when the downloads doubled?

It turns out the original version of the statistics aggregation
program crashed constantly and lost tons of data. Donald Stufft
rewrote it (using my library trio :-)), and deployed it on July 26:

  https://github.com/pypa/linehaul/issues/30

So the old download stats are artifactually low, and from July 26 the
stats are accurate.

-n

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Re: A minor milestone

Charles R Harris


On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 2:31 AM Nathaniel Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 1:19 AM, Hans Dembinski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 7. Sep 2018, at 06:33, Nathaniel Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Looking at https://pypistats.org/packages/numpy , it appears that
>> August 24 was the last day when numpy had more Python 2 downloads than
>> Python 3 downloads (maybe ever?).
>
> Good news, it is about time.
>
> Just out of curiosity, what happened after Jul 27, when the downloads doubled?

It turns out the original version of the statistics aggregation
program crashed constantly and lost tons of data. Donald Stufft
rewrote it (using my library trio :-)), and deployed it on July 26:

  https://github.com/pypa/linehaul/issues/30

So the old download stats are artifactually low, and from July 26 the
stats are accurate.


Thanks for the link. It would be nice to improve the Windows numbers, Linux is still very dominant. I suppose that might be an artifact of the systems used by developers as opposed to end users. It would be a different open source world if Microsoft had always released their compilers for free and kept them current with the evolving ISO specs.

Chuck 

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Re: A minor milestone

Nathaniel Smith
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:33 PM, Charles R Harris
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks for the link. It would be nice to improve the Windows numbers, Linux
> is still very dominant. I suppose that might be an artifact of the systems
> used by developers as opposed to end users. It would be a different open
> source world if Microsoft had always released their compilers for free and
> kept them current with the evolving ISO specs.

Well, keep in mind also that it's counting installs, not users...
people destroy and reinstall Linux systems a *lot* more often than
they do Windows/macOS systems, what with clouds and containers and CI
systems and all. On my personal laptop I install numpy maybe once per
release, but on Travis I install it half a dozen times every day.

-n

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Re: A minor milestone

Andrew Nelson-6
>  but on Travis I install it half a dozen times every day.

Good point. I wonder if there's any way to take that into account when considering whether to drop versions.

On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 at 15:14, Nathaniel Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:33 PM, Charles R Harris
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks for the link. It would be nice to improve the Windows numbers, Linux
> is still very dominant. I suppose that might be an artifact of the systems
> used by developers as opposed to end users. It would be a different open
> source world if Microsoft had always released their compilers for free and
> kept them current with the evolving ISO specs.

Well, keep in mind also that it's counting installs, not users...
people destroy and reinstall Linux systems a *lot* more often than
they do Windows/macOS systems, what with clouds and containers and CI
systems and all. On my personal laptop I install numpy maybe once per
release, but on Travis I install it half a dozen times every day.

-n

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Re: A minor milestone

Charles R Harris


On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 11:16 PM Andrew Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  but on Travis I install it half a dozen times every day.

Good point. I wonder if there's any way to take that into account when considering whether to drop versions.

On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 at 15:14, Nathaniel Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:33 PM, Charles R Harris
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks for the link. It would be nice to improve the Windows numbers, Linux
> is still very dominant. I suppose that might be an artifact of the systems
> used by developers as opposed to end users. It would be a different open
> source world if Microsoft had always released their compilers for free and
> kept them current with the evolving ISO specs.

Well, keep in mind also that it's counting installs, not users...
people destroy and reinstall Linux systems a *lot* more often than
they do Windows/macOS systems, what with clouds and containers and CI
systems and all. On my personal laptop I install numpy maybe once per
release, but on Travis I install it half a dozen times every day.


Would be interesting if the travisCI and appveyor downloads could be separated out.

Chuck 

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Re: A minor milestone

Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
There are probably a LOT of Windows users getting numpy from conda as well.

(I know my CI's and users do...)

It'd be nice if there was some way to track real usage!

-CHB


On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 3:44 PM, Charles R Harris <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 11:16 PM Andrew Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  but on Travis I install it half a dozen times every day.

Good point. I wonder if there's any way to take that into account when considering whether to drop versions.

On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 at 15:14, Nathaniel Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:33 PM, Charles R Harris
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks for the link. It would be nice to improve the Windows numbers, Linux
> is still very dominant. I suppose that might be an artifact of the systems
> used by developers as opposed to end users. It would be a different open
> source world if Microsoft had always released their compilers for free and
> kept them current with the evolving ISO specs.

Well, keep in mind also that it's counting installs, not users...
people destroy and reinstall Linux systems a *lot* more often than
they do Windows/macOS systems, what with clouds and containers and CI
systems and all. On my personal laptop I install numpy maybe once per
release, but on Travis I install it half a dozen times every day.


Would be interesting if the travisCI and appveyor downloads could be separated out.

Chuck 

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Re: A minor milestone

Charles R Harris


On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 12:03 PM Chris Barker <[hidden email]> wrote:
There are probably a LOT of Windows users getting numpy from conda as well.

(I know my CI's and users do...)

It'd be nice if there was some way to track real usage!

I wonder if the conda folks have some statistics?

<snip>

Chuck 

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Re: A minor milestone

Paul Hobson-2
In addition to this, at least half the Windows-using Python people in my social circle of switched to Windows Subsystem for Linux, which is quite good now. In include myself in this, and only use python from "Windows" when I have to deal with Access or MS-SQL Server databases (probably 10% of my workload, lately)
-paul

On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 12:18 PM Charles R Harris <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 12:03 PM Chris Barker <[hidden email]> wrote:
There are probably a LOT of Windows users getting numpy from conda as well.

(I know my CI's and users do...)

It'd be nice if there was some way to track real usage!

I wonder if the conda folks have some statistics?

<snip>

Chuck 
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Re: A minor milestone

Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
In reply to this post by Nathaniel Smith
On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Charles R Harris <[hidden email]> wrote:
There are probably a LOT of Windows users getting numpy from conda as well.

I wonder if the conda folks have some statistics?

I'm sure there is a better way that I don't know, but anaconda.org does post number of downloads of pacakges:




So you've got conda-forge, and anaconda (which I think is the "default" channel for conda and Anaconda users) and even an Intel version -- that's a lot.

But we have the CI problem -- conda-forge, for instance, uses CIs to build packages that depend on numpy -- so a LOT of those are downloaded to build other packages -- Im guessing that's why conda-forge has the most downloads of numpy (by a factor of 4) I suspect end users actually use defaults' numpy more.

You can also see downloads by file for a given channel:






Which shows that py3 Linux is the most popular -- but again, probably CIs heavily influence that.

Close-ish second is Linux py2.7, but 3.6 has 1.3 times as many -- so as the OP said -- py3 is seeing a lot of use!

Even stronger for os-x

I have no idea what conclusions to draw from any of this, but if someone can find an API to get this data, we could do more.

And I think there's an issue with Windows and py2.7 -- it doesn't show up at all (probably the whole openblas / old compiler issue). So we dont know the stats for 2.7 vs 3.6 on Windows.

-CHB








 
<snip>

Chuck 

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Re: A minor milestone

Matthew Rocklin
> I wonder if the conda folks have some statistics?

Unfortunately there's nothing that's pushed out to the general public.  There has been movement in that direction though, but it's slow moving.  I'll ping Stan Seibert, who is generally a good contact for this.

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 3:13 PM Chris Barker <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Charles R Harris <[hidden email]> wrote:
There are probably a LOT of Windows users getting numpy from conda as well.

I wonder if the conda folks have some statistics?

I'm sure there is a better way that I don't know, but anaconda.org does post number of downloads of pacakges:




So you've got conda-forge, and anaconda (which I think is the "default" channel for conda and Anaconda users) and even an Intel version -- that's a lot.

But we have the CI problem -- conda-forge, for instance, uses CIs to build packages that depend on numpy -- so a LOT of those are downloaded to build other packages -- Im guessing that's why conda-forge has the most downloads of numpy (by a factor of 4) I suspect end users actually use defaults' numpy more.

You can also see downloads by file for a given channel:






Which shows that py3 Linux is the most popular -- but again, probably CIs heavily influence that.

Close-ish second is Linux py2.7, but 3.6 has 1.3 times as many -- so as the OP said -- py3 is seeing a lot of use!

Even stronger for os-x

I have no idea what conclusions to draw from any of this, but if someone can find an API to get this data, we could do more.

And I think there's an issue with Windows and py2.7 -- it doesn't show up at all (probably the whole openblas / old compiler issue). So we dont know the stats for 2.7 vs 3.6 on Windows.

-CHB








 
<snip>

Chuck 

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